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CCP, as a parting gift, let me explain a few things to you.

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Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:43:00 - [1] Wall of text incoming. Ok, to try and have the new CCP understand a few things I will explain what made it possible for the new CCP to actually have a job in the first place. When EVE was in beta is was a big steaming pile of tripe, the only reason people stuck with it was to relive their Elite (C64 ftw) days or any similar game predating EVE. Apart from that there weren't really many options for PVP MMO's and laz0r pewpew. Apart from that the playerbase felt connected to CCP because they favoured the harsh/different gameplay, meaning that the initial players mostly shared that idea, loved it and kept playing because of it. They stuck with all the bullcrap like bugs, features, more bugs, crappy website/forums/databases, not having an website avatar for 8 months, T20 shit, other CCP shitholes that got their names changed to protect them (hello Lake) and obvious other less than desirable events where CCP's player accounts got caught with their hands in the cookiejar. The long term playerbase stuck with it because they thought long term. Thing is ofcourse that CCP was never really able to actually steer, mend or enhance the behemoth that is the EVE client. Long standing bugs from years back still exist and are now dubbed as features or are just not commented on anymore. Same thing with the forums, they lack the ability to enhance or update. All they're able to do somewhat is to do patchwork; kick the server a few times, do some raindances and hope the **** runs for a bit longer. Recently (and by that I mean more than a year ago) they figured that getting more people is a good thing (which to a point it is ofcourse). The problem is that the playerpool for a PVP centric game like EVE and the type of player that EVE requires/attracts is quite limited, that means that in order to attract more people the game had to change. So far that sounds like a business strategy, and strategies are a good thing. So from a corporate point of view there's no problem. However, the problem comes from the new target audience. They are NOT long term EVE gamers which harbour a lot of love for the old EVE and CCP. They are used to polished, easy to play, low expectation tripe. Also, they have a lot of games to choose from, meaning that all of sudden CCP's target playerbase switches from decent and loyal (thus predictable) to a bunch more but possibly less loyal. Apart from that it requires massive changes (that have been set in motion a long time ago) regarding gameplay, balance and CCP's attitude towards core game design. I'm sure someone somewhere in Iceland made the calculations regarding this but I feel they forgot a few variables. If you think that long term players will stay anyway and the ones that do leave are easily made up for by the new arrivals then you think short term. For now it works but I doubt it will keep on going. TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Unless ofcourse CCP IS thinking short term, for a reason; Possibly the earlier mentioned fact that the client is a behemoth they really can't (be arsed to) control anymore. And ofcourse perhaps the new MMO that they hope will do well, removing the need for EVE in the first place. If that is the case then they're doing a good job of suckering in as many players as they possibly can in a short amount of time. Well done. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway**
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:48:00 - [2] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, **ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Luckily, not all think so. I think a majority is happy with the game, even if some things "annoy". Give it a few months. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway**
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Kuolematon THEY NURFFED MY NANONS!!! RAGE!!! Kuole, throughout all your EVE career you have been an insignificant clown, I see nothing has changed. I actually AGREE with the nano changes, and my main is Minni while this char flies (flew) a nanocurse. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 13:21:38 This is an alt on the only account that hasn't run out yet :) Besides, you gotta admit he's a clown. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:24:00 - [5] Nope, I'm in the process of piling up all my assets onto one char and then ritually destroy it or perhaps just let it rot. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Vincent Gaines Wait, Lake was able to change his name? What is it, I owe him a poddin' No, Lake IS the new name. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:13:00 - [7] Originally by: TigerXtrm Online games have the contant NEED to be tweaked and adjusted. You may find it entertaining, cracking your ribs every time your super nano boat outruns everyone while you kill those bastards at the same time. People on the other end don't find it that much fun, especially if they run into the same lame tricks over and over again. Especially if hundreds of people are doing it. Gaming is a social event. If you're here because you're not worth anything in real life but get to pwn people like crazy here on EVE then please go away and go kick babies out of windows to get that warm fuzzy feeling of owning someone. If you can't deal with changes in games then you do NOT deserve to play them. You pay monthly to play this game, at least put some bloody effort into it instead of wanting to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Do you actually have a clue? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Vincent Gaines Originally by: Cygnus Zhada No, Lake IS the new name. There's only one Lake I know of, from ISS (Praxis) who stole billions and was a general asshat. Correct, his previous name was uhm... "Solon" or something like that. Apart from that, don't you find it odd that he went "inactive" for a long time while still being in charge of a corp (whcih had enough able members to not tolerate an inactive leader) in ISS and then suddenly come back after a certain other alliance/character went down in flames? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Glengrant Edited by: Glengrant on 27/08/2008 14:14:04 Originally by: Rafilialindal I'd just like to say, I can see where the OP is coming from. After putting so much time and effort into something like eve..wouldn't it be strange not to feel angry at ccp? Err - why exactly? Or roughly? Or anything guessable hinted at? Just like the OP you fail to explain what it is that annoys you. I'm not saying CCP is a saintly bunch of unfailing angels who never make mistakes. But really - what's the terrible thing that would make it strange not to feel angry at them? I'm not feeling angry yet and I fell I'm missing out on something here. ;-) Please enlighten me. I know that the usual suspects are: * Some nerf or other (aka they plugged a design hole that wasn't supposed to be there from the beginning) * lag (aka I want want want to be in Jita all the time, or our blob and their blob didnt work out so well, even though big blob is now hundreds instead of tens) * didn't implement somebodies pet feature yet * eve too harsh (aka I got ganked) * eve not harsh enough (aka didn't find somebody I could gank right away) * CCP only caters to pvpers * CCP only caters to carebears * CCP screws noobs * CCP screws veterans * fresh out of the oven: Chribbas Veldnaught I don't see a reason to really get angry about any of this. And as many complaints actually contradict each other we really need more specifics. Without trying to sound emo (I'm not, at all actually). If you can't see what I mean then I guess you don't see the problem (yet). In that case I'm happy for you. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:26:00 - [10] Try to remember whom you rented that station from, it'll give you a clue. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Glengrant Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Without trying to sound emo (I'm not, at all actually). If you can't see what I mean then I guess you don't see the problem (yet). In that case I'm happy for you. And you can neither explain nor hint what you mean because ....? If you actually read the whole OP you should be able to correlate it from that. but I'll help you out using bulletpoints; - EVE's success come from being a niche game, which attracts niche players. It certainly never was a coding masterpiece - since those niche players applauded CCP's daring move by being niche, combined with the fact that there really weren't any other MMO's that compared, they stuck to it - even to a point where they simply looked away from the lacking game design, bugs, CCP's player account interferences and overal bad game support (mind you, not talking about the GM'S) like failing forums, years outdated web databases and part of the website that simply didn't work for more than 2 years. - any other MMO would have gotten burned to the ground, trampled on and brushed aside because of those problems. - EVE didn't because we loved the game and what it stood for, it's called loyalty and sharing a vision. Apart from still not having any other realistic MMO option - CCP's focus has shifted from EVE to the new MMO, this is logical and to be expected. this means that thei goals shifts from long term, to short term - because of that they try to keep thing running without needing too many resources - also; to fund the new MMO they're trying to make as much cash as possible short term - which means that they don't care what they have to do to make this happen, as they don't have long term plans anymore. if that means they have to rename Jita to Stormwind, give everyone a free MiniVagabond that flies around with you or just paint all the planets pink to try to attract more female players, they'll do it. - I refuse to pay and play an MMO if the company that makes it thinks short term and (even worse) tramples on the old values, ideas and game concepts to do so I'm not talking about nerfs (as stated, I'm in favor of the nano nerf), I'm not talking about one thing. What I AM talking about is the shift in thinking, game concept and priorities that have been happening within CCP. Do I make any sense now :)
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 15:06:00 - [12] Thought about it, but that would benefit the freeloading high sec dwellers. And I don't believe in giving back what I took from people first :P ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 15:18:00 - [13] There is a difference between groth for the sake of making the game grow, and growth at all cost to act as a staging point for your next venture. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 15:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 15:56:35 @Glengrant: That's the point really, there is no one thing that stands out. I look at it from a management/company POV rather than ingame specifics. I'll try to highlight some aspects. - a while time ago (1-2 years or something can't remember) all of a sudden there was dev blog which kinda stated "Right, this is how we've been doing things, this is how we're going to do things and oh; we have a goal of attaining 300k subscriptions". First two parts are good, change happens; you've been somewhere and now you're gonna change some stuff. no problem there. But the last part should set off some alarms. WHY do you want 300k subscribers all of a sudden (where you previously couldn't give a rats ass about subscription numbers, if the people didn't fall into the concepts and ideas then you didn't need/want them anyway). And; HOW FAR are you willing to go and alienate from your previous path and playerbase to make that number happen. That single number goal means a whole lot; it means that the goals of CCP have changed, it means (possibly) that the people that were adament about those goals trying to stay true to the core have been pushed aside. All of a sudden it went from "lets make a cracking pewpew game" to "moar money!!!". There is ofcourse nothing wrong with wanting high profit on investment but from a customer's point of view I will have my reservations about how much they still have my wellbeing and concerns as a first priority, if I initially was attracted to the game because of it's niche and different gameplay? Because to attract more people they will have to look elswhere, and to attract those new people they will have to offer them things they're accustomed to, that sound familiar and not at all too radical. In other words; in order to attain their goal they will have to conform to the general public, moving from a niche game and attitude towards a more moderate way of doing things. To oversimplify and exxagerate; they'll have to make WOW in space (I know, corny but you get my point). I don't WANT WOW in space, I want EVE in space. Furthermore; EVE will never be as good as WOW in space as when blizzard would actually attempt to make it themselves. For the simple fact that CCP is unable to work properly on specifics and details. That is the problem that EVE had; overall good ideas and amazing game, but shitty on the details. So, they're alienating a part of the older clientele, in favor of new customers (which, if the numbers work out correctly is good for them). Thing is; those new customers want flawless gameplay, proper details and no bugs because they're used to that as that is what blizzard did SO well with WOW and their other games; it WORKS. EVE cannot provide that. So, they might get new people short term but it is my opinion that they will be unable to retain them long term. Heck even with how it WAS the average character age is 7 months. What will happen next? 14 days trials, 2 months paid for and then leave to the next MMO fix? Will that work out for CCP? moreso; do the current players want a playerbase largely made up of players like that? Do you understand my 'fear' for the long term implications these decisions and effects will have for the long term players? And that's without the obvious shift in focus toward the new MMO; but that needs no explaining. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:02:00 - [15] Originally by: An Anarchyyt So, if I'm reading this right: You think you're the most space important person here, and you know best. So, CCP naturally should listen to you. Why don't they? I'm voicing my opinion, you as a goon should know that concept. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Ephyra Chamos Originally by: Cygnus Zhada WHY do you want 300k subscribers all of a sudden (where you previously couldn't give a rats ass about subscription numbers, if the people didn't fall into the concepts and ideas then you didn't need/want them anyway). And; HOW FAR are you willing to go and alienate from your previous path and playerbase to make that number happen. What kind of buisness modal for a MMO wouldn't care about subscriptions? To the people who profit from CCP, subscription numbers are the only thing that matters. Afterall, how good do you think they could make the game with only 100k subscribers, and the ever escallating cost of living we have? Because they were idealists and players first, and a company second (or even third). That is what attracted me (and I guess several others) to the game in the first place. The total lack of marketing shit talk, the complete focus on the GAME. The fact that it wasn't run by EA, NCsoft, SOE or any other big time creativity crushing publisher. Other posters; have fun trolling or if you're genuine actually engage your brain and READ what is posted. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Lady Valory "When I evolved, we raptors and T-Rex were the best there ever were. We dinosaurs were elite, and we stuck with it for the Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretacious period! We were loyal for hundreds of millions of years. We didn't even mind mammals or pterosaurs or sea-reptiles, and then BOOM they changed the WHOLE world on us! Out of nowhere mammals have grown to take over the earth. They are smaller than us, dont kill us much as we do, and quite frankly we are royally mad for the evolution of mammal!" Fair point. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 16:23:50 Another good point. Thing is that I don't see 0.0 entities, allainces and long term things like T2 production and whatnot happening if the overal ingame age is quite young. EVE is a long term MMO with long term goals, forcing a large part of the playerbase to refresh itself long before actually getting to those goals means the game gets poorer because of it. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:25:00 - [19] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Because they were idealists and players first, and a company second (or even third). That is what attracted me (and I guess several others) to the game in the first place. The total lack of marketing shit talk, the complete focus on the GAME. The fact that it wasn't run by EA, NCsoft, SOE or any other big time creativity crushing publisher. Other posters; have fun trolling or if you're genuine actually engage your brain and READ what is posted. So now you've also decided to tell us what they care about now? You really need to get over yourself. They already stated what they care about; 300k subscriptions and their new MMO. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 16:40:23 @Ephyra Chamos; CCP have been working on a new MMO, they merged together with WhiteWolf to make use of their expertise on that aspect of MMO's. What you know as Ambulation is nothing more than a trial project to test and work out problems with that sort of engine they're going to use for their new project. A lot (if not most) of the core designers have not been working on EVE for a long time, they have moved to the new one (or left, that can happen ofcourse). They have been replaced by new personel, which in itself doesn't have to be a problem ofcourse. But you gotta ask yourself this; Why move the core designers from your old to your new MMO, if you could have hired new designers for that new MMO as well? Some answers could be; - new ones are cheaper because they don't have to do a whole lot and/or aren't as good - we'r riding out the old MMO with a skeleton crew and will be working on something new, YIPPEE!!! Neither option sounds particularly appealing to me. It's been awfully quiet on the DEV part lately, haven't you noticed? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 16:43:00 Originally by: Ruze amazingly good post, including the last part I have and I will. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:16:00 - [22] The world is full of businesses (or remains thereof) that went wrong because of thinking big, or because they let sweet talking marketing/management jokers take control. Fact is; CCP's focus and attention is devided and possibly shifted. Lets hope I'm wrong. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:48:00 - [23] Yup, TOA wasn't a smart move. Is was Mythic trying to be WOW, hoping to grab a part of their playerbase... ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:56:00 - [24] Call me sceptic, tbfh I really don't mind. Here's your link ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:33:00 - [25] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 28/08/2008 10:34:03 @Victor Kruger Yes, WOW was made on the same day it went live, they coded it, tested it and put it out in 1 day! At no point had they been working on it for several years, nor had there been alpha's, beta's or anything odd like that. Also; no other MMO publisher would be stupid enough to learn about their new competitor and to anticipate it's launch, I mean that would just be... stupid? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:39:00 - [26] Originally by: AeonOfTime So has EVE really lost all its appeal for you? Short term? no But I think long term, and thus I refuse to invest time/effort into a game where I feel development is stalling. Mind you, not neccesarily HAS stalled. Again, long term. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Dihania No parting gift for me? My account's still active, and it wouldn't be done with this char anyway. Besides, you wouldn't want this parting gift. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:30:00 - [28] It's just a band
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada It's just a band And you're just a man Allegedly. You fail to understand the link, if you're going to reply make it worthwhile :)
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:47:00 - [30] @Glengrant Are you sure? In all seriousness, to me it isn't. IF I'm going to waste a large part of my free time and a bit of cash on something I would like it to last a bit, especially when it comes to a long term game like EVE. This is not an FPS which you buy, complete in 5 hours, replay once or twice and try the multiplayer a bit. MMO's by design, and certainly EVE, are long term "investments". NOT thinking about the long term viability and design decisions would be rather short sighted methinks. To me I see CCP (have been) going in a direction that makes me lose my initial (and rather important) attraction to the game. Apart from that I feel that already they have been shifting assets and development time away from EVE, because no matter how much of a fanboy one is, you gotta admit that at some point this will happen. Perhaps I'm being more pessimistic about it than others. But then I am a bit odd; I actually buy vegetables at a grocery, I buy meat from a butcher and I buy my bread from a bakery. Not because it makes me feel better or special, but because I notice the difference and am prepared to put in extra effort and cash to get that, while at the same time supporting the losing battle against the supermarkets. In the end we'll see who's right or wrong.

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